BLS Interview with Michael Levin, Part 2

Derek interviews Michael Levin, an accomplished writer who was on ABC’s Shark Tank. Read Part 1 about his process in helping writers.

Derek: You’re probably sick of hearing this question but I’m going to ask it anyway. Tell me about being on Shark Tank. It’s probably a very over-asked question but I went back and watched that because I’ve seen every episode of Shark Tank, every season because I just love the show.

So I went back and watched it after I had met you and I just thought you were- you handled yourself very coolly and it was cool to see Damon and Mark and those guys just with the big smiles and enjoying being in your presence and talking with you. So what was that like? Being on that show.

Michael: It wasn’t like anything I’ve ever done, I felt as though I had been miniaturized and shrunk and stuck in my TV set. And just walking down- it’s not real sharks, it’s video of sharks in a shark tank, when you’re walking down that little corridor. Then you stand there and the cameras have to focus on you and get everything right, so you stand there for two minutes before you even say a word. They’re looking at you, you’re looking at them, you can’t say anything and it’s really unnerving. Then you’re hoping you’re going to be able to remember your pitch and deliver it one time because you don’t have any notes and that’s the first time they see you, that’s the first time you see them. So you’re so relieved you got your pitch out but then you forget that they’re going to start asking you questions.

Derek: Yes, and tough questions too right?

Michael: I have to say they were very kind to me and very respectful. I later on watched a highlight reel of the way they just destroy people and I realized that I was very fortunate. But the show was sort of like an intervention on me as an entrepreneur. I just always saw myself, until then, as a writer guy who was kind of running a business but the respect that they gave me; one of them said, “You know, you’ve done what 0.0001 percent of writers has ever done. You’ve figured out how to make a good living at it.”

When they said that, something inside me changed, it was really as if the whole purpose of the show was not to get me a deal but to do a nationally televised intervention on me. So that I would recognize that I am a business owner and that I’m not the knucklehead they kind of think I am, when it comes to what I do. So I did not get a deal but I don’t really need one, it’s not that kind of business. And from my perspective- you know, what I do isn’t really scalable. Damon said, “Can you do a lower priced version for people with less means?” and I said, “I honestly can’t because how do I maintain the quality?”

I’ve never even seen the whole episode, I watched the first couple of minutes and I couldn’t stand it, it was just, “I mean, everyone’s going to lose.” I told my wife last night, the episode re-airs every eight weeks, on MSNBC or CNBC and it aired this week. The phone rings and people call and I said, “You know, I have a very weird business model, I haven’t told you. Every eight weeks, I lose on national television and the phone rings, so go figure.”

Derek: [laughs] Well that was my next question. What kind of a response did you get when that aired?

Michael: It was phenomenal. I mean, I get prospects every time it airs, which is great. On top of that, people called in, they had different ideas from my business model and I talked to every single one of them because I figured, “You know, maybe they know something I don’t know.” There were some nutty people there were some outlandish proposals but it’s a unique experience. It’s a unique experience to stand there in front of these people. My clients are all successful people and I’ve worked with a bunch of billionaires before, so I wasn’t, you know, cowered by them, they’re really no different. I did my homework, I read their books, I read up on them so I could schmooze them effectively and-

Derek: You did schmooze them very well. [laughs]

Michael: [laughs] Thank you, yes. You know and I had a game plan with Kevin because I knew he was going to come in hard and heavy. So I knew that whatever he said, if he went into attack mode, I just was going to look at him and say, “Kevin, Kevin, Kevin. Is this how it’s going to be between us?” and at that moment, not only did he and the rest of The Sharks laugh, you could hear the stagehands, you could hear the crew laughing on the set. At that moment, everything changed, I mean-

Derek: [laughs] Well when Mr. Wonderful relaxes and smiles a certain way and you’ve won him over, that’s a big deal because it sets the tone for the room too sometimes. So-

Michael: Well that’s exactly it, it was just another sales call. I mean, it wasn’t but it was, it’s something- you have to know what you want, you have to know the people across the table. You have to establish rapport and find a way to connect with them. And if people have written books and you don’t read their books, then you’re an idiot.

Derek: Right.

Michael: So if you go in cold into a room and you could have prepared and you could have known something about them and you could have established a basis of meaningful rapport based on something that is out there already- I mean, I’m working on a proposal right now for an individual and she referenced on her website that she had been blindsided in a divorce. Well I picked up and I mentioned that in the email, I said, “That must have been very painful and I applaud you for taking that hit and keeping going and building a new life for yourself.”

Now. Does she want to be reminded she was blindsided by her divorce? Probably not, but the thing is, it’s up there on her website and what it does, is that it indicates that I took the time to respect her and get to know her. Instead of just throwing numbers at her, it’s just the way of doing business.

Derek: That’s powerful. That’s a great lesson, not to get lazy in our sales meetings. Sometimes we get good enough at our craft and this has happened to me where, you know, we think we’ve got it because in our own merit because we’re so comfortable with what we do but you’re so right. We need to understand who we’re going to talk to and what’s relevant to them, what their contributions are and what’s important to them. That’s a great reminder, not to get lazy with who we’re going to meet. If we still love what we do, then we’re more motivated.

Michael: Yes, that’s exactly it and two things come to mind when you say that. One is that, I once heard that life is a battle between comfort and excellence. And there’s no excellence, there’s no growth in the comfort zone. So my job is to keep expanding my comfort zone, keep stepping outside it and I do that. I’ve taught writing for 25, 26 years and I always tell my classes, “I get more rejection letters in any given year, than all of you have got in your entire writing careers combined.” The thing is, life isn’t about your batting average, it’s about, “Did you try and did you succeed?”

Not to get political but they’re making a lot of fun about Donald Trump and mistakes and some of the other ventures. Well, “a person who doesn’t try things, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don’t take”, that’s what Pretsky says. There’s a case story in one of his books about his paper company. He says he would send a guy in a car out and follow the delivery truck of the competition and just watch where they dropped off envelopes. Then he would turn that information over to his sales team and say, “This is where XYZ envelope company is selling. Go to those places and undercut them. So he would win over tons.

So the thing is that, you don’t know who’s doing competitive intelligence on you. Maybe you know who your competition is, maybe you don’t. As we mentioned, just before we started the interview, we both have kids and a family and responsibilities. If I get fat and happy, it’s not just me that’s going down. My kids are counting on me and my wife is counting on me. I’ve got a team of 30 people, if I get lazy and fat and happy-

Derek: Right, your employees, yes.

Michael: You know, people say, “Do you ever get writer’s block?” and I say, “No, I have writer’s mortgage.” So it’s just a question of, “You don’t know, let’s not get carried away.”

Derek: [laughs] Yes that’s- and I get asked that often when I do podcasts. Is, “How do you avoid the fat cat syndrome?” and, “How do you stay motivated?” and I think that happens often. Is that people achieve a certain level of success, then they say, “What’s next?.” They’ve got to continue to have other goals, having the mortgage does help but I think also, finding ways to continue to be passionate about what you’re doing, is important too.